Double Thumbing

[Funkaliscious]

I recently started learning the double thumbing technique, but I really need to build up my speed and accuracy, does anyone know of any good songs, riffs or exercises to help me along? It's a real tough technique, but well worth mastering.

[woodchuck]

Go get "Show Of Hands" by Vic Wooten

[Funkaliscious]

Cool thanks. That kinda sounds like he's tapping, but it will sure keep me busy for a while! :lol:

[Simon]

Im in the same boat at the moment - been practicing it for about a month. Slowly im getting better, but I guess it takes time!

Got the Vic Wooten album mentioned but they are a tad too much for me to attempt yet :cheesy:

[Big T]

an easy way to practise on this, is by doublethumping a root and plucking the octave, sort of like "downthump-upthump-pluck - downthumb-upthump-pluck" in an even tempo. once you're safe with doing this with f.example C root and octave, try to go chromatically up the neck.

You can also just start with the C-major scale, alternating between up and down thumping for each note. Start with a downthump on C, and when you get to A on the G string, you pluck the A, downthump the B and upthumb the C.
So that's C (A-string) - down, D (A-string) - up, E (D-string) - down, F (D-string) - up, G (D-string) - down, A (G-string) - pluck, B (G-string) - down and C (G-string) - down.

Hope that helps.. :?:

You should get a book, I know of one where alot of bassplayers have written lessons on various subjects, including Victor Wooten. It's Hal Leonard I think, check it out.

And ofcourse, play everything with a metronome, and build up the speed as you do it better. Repetition helps!

[Frank]

There's a video called "Victor Wooten: Lesson on Technique" where he explains very clearly the doube thumbing..

[Funkaliscious]

Hey those tips are really helpful :cheesy:

I've found playing those scale excersises with the metronome is a good way of monitoring my progress with the speed.

[Frank]

hmm.. just one question.. do you really like the double thumbing? I think it's a little bit too much "bass wanking". That's probably the other half of Wooten that I don't like.. :frown:

p.s - Let the "flames" begin :lol:

[Simon]

haha Frank, no flames here - thats in the Leroy thread :cheesy: !

Although Im practicing it, I plan on using it more as an added technique to slip in every now and then. It's not something I would use exclusively, like you said Wooten does. I see it more as an added technique, like slapping, and I certainly wont use it (as you so nicely put it) as 'bass w@n*ing' :mrgreen:

[Funkaliscious]

Hahaha bass wanking, well I like to keep an open mind about my bass playing. I'm open to all techniques and methods really if it sounds good :cheesy:

Like Simon mentioned, it's just another way to enhance your playing, plus it looks pretty impressive if you can master it hehe

EKM

[Alfred Jazz Punker]

Well... you all know what I thino fo Victor Wooten... I mean, yeah, it's fire... But wouldn't be eassier to do all thos things on another instrument? he he he...

However, once you get started on double thumbing, you can start using your third and fourth fingers... this to do triplets and more... that's cool any way.

[Funkaliscious]

I think there are endless ways of playing the bass, I know some people say that if you play like Vic Wooten you might as well just play guitar, but I don't know... I think it's more fun to explore all techniques possible, wether on bass or guitar or banjo or anything!

I've found if you limit yourself too much, you quickly get bored and maybe a bit complacent with your playing, so things stop progressing.

Although I guess everyone has their own favourite way of playing.

Just about got the first bit of Classical Thump up to speed ;) Woooooo!

EKM

[Alfred Jazz Punker]

Classical Thump... THAT IS MAJOR LEAGUES::: congratulations...

[Lex]

I plan on using it more as an added technique to slip in every now and then.

Simon's right here, it's a cool thing to slip in every now and then.

I just listened to Classical Thump for the first time, and although I know that technically it's quite impressive I found it totally boring to listen to. In fact, it's reminded me how much my listening habits have changed since I have matured as a bass player. I used to enjoy watching and listening to really fast and technical playing, but these days I am more interested in "the song" more than anything else.

I mean, I have seen some really great bassists play some really technically amazing music but I couldn't remember a single melody of theirs...

I think that's why I like Zender's playing so much; great tone, great rhythm and memorable melodies.

In my 10th year of playing the bass, I am actually playing far LESS notes these days than I was when I was starting out. I haven't even played a funk/jazz gig for a year or so. I have been playing in an original rock/pop group and I must say I absolutely love it. I get to concentrate on groove and feel rather than having to crank out super-fast 16ths and slaps and pops.

I guess my point is, while these guys (Wooten etc) are amazingly talented, how many of them out there just disappear into obscurity because the music they create is not memorable or accessible for the average listener?

Everyone please feel free to disagree with me :) hahah... I am just really interested to see what you guys think!

Cheers

Lex

[bloop]

No disagreement from me Lex, I totally agree with you.

I think it requires a lot more thought deciding which notes NOT to play and how long to hold one note. The real genius bass lines for me are the really simple groovy melodical ones. Fast "bass wanky" type blines go right over my head. I don't get it and I find the tone for these type things are normally overly trebly and hit me right in the top of my head creating a nasty headache. You've got guitars and guitar players for creating that musical masturbation with the huge flurry of notes. The bass for me has always been about staying cool, and being the solid foundation of the groove.

As I say (probably too much, and after hearing Andrew Levy say it first) "It's NOT what you play, it HOW you play it!" :cheesy:

[Frank]

guess my point is, while these guys (Wooten etc) are amazingly talented, how many of them out there just disappear into obscurity because the music they create is not memorable or accessible for the average listener?

hmm.. but don't be fooled. Most of the guys who can play the super techniques, the "virtuosos", can also play you a "face melting" groove.. It takes a great knowledge of the instrument (and music) to invent and master those kind of techniques. Sure, I also prefer a steady groovy/funky b-line, but I also understand that, while most of the good bass players can create that, not many can do what wooten and "friends" can. And hey.. they have to get paid... Bare in mind that Wooten, at the age of 5, was already opening to names like Curtis Mayfield 8)

[Big T]

you said part of what I was thinking there, frank. another thing, is that these virtuosos are pushing the boundaries for their instrument. this is just as nesessary as those who play less and in the pocket. all instruments have these people, who explore the boundaries. it's not always a great listen, but it should be listened to and appreciated. where would we be without larry graham f.example, what would slap bass be like? and without james jamerson? but otherwise I agree with you guys

[Funkaliscious]

Yeah I see what you're saying about some of the more technical lines being a bit boring to listen to, but if you can acheive a good balance between the fancy stuff and the more groove orientated stuff, you can create a real nice style.

I'd never use double thumbing or tapping for everything I play, but for the occasional solo or section, it just adds that extra dimension to the sound, especially live. I think it's good to have a wide range of techniques to pick from so you've got that freedom to play with. But always remember to stay groovy 8)

[deerosa]

I grew up a few back as well. After a while playing a million notes doesn't have any use for a good song? Even Flea grew up and started playing eight notes? I don't get any mad looks when I am doing open hammer plucking or double thumping any longer. Its cool to do for flash but does it fit any strong structure? Oh, by the way don't do it on any session dates either! You won't be back believe me!

Funkaliscious, go to http://www.victorwoten.com he has a couple of things and samples to play off of. Its cool to add to your bag of tricks as well. Just remember that it will take time. The downstroke at first will be louder than coming back up, but the up stroke will take alot more feel. I use to practice just thumping in between songs at rehearsal and practice, next thing you know it sounded fluid and even. Good luck!!!! :P

I feel also that sight reading should be the most important thing that all bass players should do better, myself included....

[Alfred Jazz Punker]

" Fast "bass wanky" type blines go right over my head "

Hey! that's cool... I have always think that the bass should hit you on the chest, your legs, your stomach... and of course: Move your feets!.... But never in your head!...
There are other instruments to do that more naturally... You know what I mean?...
After all, Classical Thump it's cool... A big demosntration of slap, pop and tapping... But I could never play that. First I wouldn't spend that time on one song that really doesn't make a difference in my life... Second because everbody in my band would probably hate me if I started playing things like that (you know... bass guitar it's supposed to be smooth)... and second: I'm too lazy... :lol:

[Frank]

Hey! that's cool... I have always think that the bass should hit you on the chest, your legs, your stomach... and of course: Move your feets!.... But never in your head!...

I think you are talking about drums :lol:

[smellebass]

"power" from Marcus Miller also is quite good to learn some double thumping (it's not used througout the song but it's still in there :) )

(btw i'm new to the forum and a big stuart zender fan so i'm glad i discovered the forum)

[Big T]

"power" from Marcus Miller also is quite good to learn some double thumping (it's not used througout the song but it's still in there :) )



True, cool song. Just about EVERYTHING from Marcus Miller is a good lesson in doublethumping, hehe. The Ozell tapes and M2 are great examples for that, that's where I've learned most of my shit.

[Funkaliscious]

Marcus Miller is a dude, I never even thought to listen to him for double thumbing till now! Haha

Any one heard Alain Caron too? I can't make out whether he uses double thumbing sometimes too.

[Gary]

Hi All

I have spent the last 8+ months trying to get my double thumping down. I think the most important thing is to incorporate it into a groove situation and not as someone else mentioned a bass wank :cheesy:

I like using it in some grooves as it adds some nice dynamics you wouldn't get simply slapping. Also means you can add some nice runs without too much effort.

I started by simply playing scales with it to get the feel of it. I then learnt Vics Classical Thump, more to figure out how to incorporate it into a bass line.

[Alfred Jazz Punker]

Well...

I said it on the drummer-bassist interaction topic, but again... There's the factor of being sitting in your house playing for hours...

Of course will help you, will make your character and your sound, your mood and your chalengues... but everybody should try to practice with a drummer, it's a double training for both of you: you can improve your timming and your connection with the drummer, and you can find how much does this kind of techniques works in a Jam or in a musical context (talking about more than one)...

Try it, will be a wonderful experience and most important of all will change your sound in a good way...

[Gary]

Well...

I said it on the drummer-bassist interaction topic, but again... There's the factor of being sitting in your house playing for hours...

Of course will help you, will make your character and your sound, your mood and your chalengues... but everybody should try to practice with a drummer, it's a double training for both of you: you can improve your timming and your connection with the drummer, and you can find how much does this kind of techniques works in a Jam or in a musical context (talking about more than one)...

Try it, will be a wonderful experience and most important of all will change your sound in a good way...

Valid point, It's quite suprising how much you can become dependant on a cd playing in the background or a constant drum machine beat.

Nothing better than getting out there and playing. The drummer I work with at the moment is a drummer I have played with on and off over the years. We have this little competition going to catch each other out on bass runs or drum fills and try to follow each other or really lock into each others playing. Great fun too.

[Alfred Jazz Punker]

the best thing of doing this is just as simple as get your internal rythims so well conected and so damn perfect that you won't worry about this...

Remember that a good bass player won't be noticed until he fails... and the eassiest way to fail is faling down with a rythim...

[markbutler]

If your looking at Victor Wooten's classical thump as a song, that was not its intended purpose. This song was used as a way of practising and maintaining his technique. The purpose was not to create a melodic or grooving masterpiece, simply a means of practising the mechanics. If you can play the song, like myself, you can clearly observe its progression. He starts with a down slap, then open down, then open down up, then his open hammer pluck method, onto open hammer pluck middle and index, and so on. Once he finishes progressing to his five note thumbing technique for one down up motion, he then show various ways in which the technique can be used.
Therefore before you start bashing Victor, I suggest listening to classical thump for what it is, a means of practise. And then listen to his many other compositions, covers (overjoyed for example), and his work with the flecktones.

[Gary]

Totally agree

That was the song that I used to learn the technique. As Victor says if you can play Classical Thump you more or less know everything he does.

[Funkaliscious]

[quote=""Alfred Jazz Punker""]but everybody should try to practice with a drummer, it's a double training for both of you: you can improve your timming and your connection with the drummer, and you can find how much does this kind of techniques works in a Jam or in a musical context (talking about more than one)...quote]

Yeah it's definatley important to interact with other musicians. I'm working with an amazing drummer at the min, and it's great when we establish a nice solid groove, but it's not just drummers that it's important to jam with, also other musicians. I find guitarists are the most difficult to lock in with, more difficult than keys players in a way, or maybe I've just had some bad luck! :roll:

The double thumbing thing is coming on good though! It's just a case of working out when it's appropriate to use it without sounding like
unnecessary "Bass Wanking", hahhahaa.

EKM

[JB]

Yeah Marcus Miller's "Power" is great for practicing double-thumbing because you don't have to do it the whole song - gives you a break when you're starting out the technique. Check out the transcriptions page on this website - it's there.

http://www.lucaspickford.com/

[Mike Flynn]

HI chaps - I know some of you know me over at Bass World as Urb - well this place started coming up on my web stats and I spotted this thread on the ole Wooten thumb thing - I made a few little online lessons on my website that might help you get the down and up thumb strokes happening, and also the pluck, and double pluck thing too - I hope these are useful:

http://www.munkio.com/music/music_lessons.html

There are some vids on the site of me using the technique for playing grooves and solos - but this is by far the silliest example of what you can do with this stuff:

http://www.munkio.com/music/Victor/Silly%20Slap.mov

Later

Mike

[Simon]

Thanks for popping by Mike ;)

I'd love the time to sit down and have a real bash at this technique (I dabble with it) but just haven't solidly got in to it yet!

Your videos are a great help as an insight so thanks for them ;)

Hope to see you around ;)

[Blackally]

After reading this topic I gave it a try, but man...... it's really hard.

I've looked at the videos which are great and I've checked out Wooten's video on this.. I really think I need a lot of practise... Gonna start with this after a few month's. At this moment I'm very busy learning sight reading....

Just don't have the time to practise all the time

Peter